Curse

Skyy High · Oct 12, 2008, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Why can't you people simply adapt to circumstance? If you take RA so seriously that you can't deal with syncers, why don't you simply game the system the way other people are gaming it? Make some skilled friends and sync yourself if it bothers you that much.

Why do people get all pissed off when they get robbed? I mean, if you can't deal with getting your stuff taken all the time, why don't you just get a gang together and rob some people yourself? Pansies.

Worst. Argument. Ever.

DreamRunner · Oct 12, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

when people present you with facts you look it up, i am sure you are using a computer to type that word Proof? And must have a web browser and can visit a website call http://www.google.com/ which is a search engine

but if you like spoon feeding: it is called Ludology

You are wrong. When people want to have a fact, you must present it. It's as bad as trying to have Wikipedia as a reliable source of information. It is not spoon feeding, it is called having a decent argument but from the lack of intelligence from your previous posts, I wouldn't expect anything more. Try using the P.E.E chain method (Point, Evidence, Explain) as starting point.

pumpkin pie · Oct 12, 2008, 02:55 AM // 02:55

ah nevermind not important

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

It boggles my mind every time I see large portions of the community turn out insisting on a rule change for something like this. The logic of these arguments always runs like this:

I do not like the present system. You should change the system to reflect MY preferences. You should do this because of 'X' moral/ethical principle.

Yes very mind boggling, isn't it, THAT LARGER PART OF THE COMMUNITY IS SYNCHERS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

In this case, the principle is that the designers did not intend for RA groups to be non-random.

I can only laugh at the comment above like that

extremely mind bogglling, ain't it, naming a part of your game Random Arena and not intent it to be random, harmz let me see. they must not have meant for it to be random, must be reverse psychology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Why can't you people simply adapt to circumstance? If you take RA so seriously that you can't deal with syncers, why don't you simply game the system the way other people are gaming it? Make some skilled friends and sync yourself if it bothers you that much.

What the hell are you talking about, It is precisely because players DO NOT WANT TO ADAPT THAT THEY SYNC. If they have adapted, they would have gone over to play TEAM ARENA. It is the non-syncher who is adapting everyday, having other players leaving their group and getting wipe out on 9 consecutive wins by a sync/cheat group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

If that doesn't work for you, organize an RA boycott. Make it clear to the devs that lots of people hate syncing with evidence! Don't just come to a forum and complain about it. Make your complaint impossible to ignore. In short, do something to solve the problem!

SIGN PLEASE and THANK YOU FOR SUPPORT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Is it so important that a game run exactly the way you think it should? You did not design it. Is your happiness so important that it outweighs the happiness of others enough to merit a change in the system?

^^^ you should ask synchers that, are their happiness so much more important that the rest of the playerbase that does not sync should adapt to them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

If you expect the world around you to adapt itself to that which you believe to be "right" or "just", you're going to be sorely disappointed throughout your entire life. Take the world as it is and live in it. Adapt your own actions to your ethical principles and the systems you live in. If you want something, take an action that makes it more likely that you'll get what you want!

No, In real life I am the shark, the world has to revolve around me

This is play world, It is not serious business, and because it is not serious business, I want it to not suck because synching cheater spoil it.

Avarre · Oct 12, 2008, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

I can only laugh at the comment above like that

extremely mind bogglling, ain't it, naming a part of your game Random Arena and not intent it to be random, harmz let me see. they must not have meant for it to be random, must be reverse psychology.

There's no such thing as 'random', to be honest. It's picked out by the system by some means, we just don't get to watch it done.

Even so, syncing is still a 'random' process, although it involves loading the dice to a degree.

Quote:

What the hell are you talking about, It is precisely because players DO NOT WANT TO ADAPT THAT THEY SYNC. If they have adapted, they would have gone over to play TEAM ARENA. It is the non-syncher who is adapting everyday, having other players leaving their group and getting wipe out on 9 consecutive wins by a sync/cheat group.

Most of the people that I know who sync RA just want to mess around with one or more of their friends without the serious organization of TA. It's not quite as nefarious as you seem to suggest. There are some who just want the easy wins, but that's a player problem rather than a major hole in the system.

Arkantos · Oct 12, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

uhh...yes it is.

Explain to me how pressing enter battle the same time as a friend to get into the same party is a bug. It's bad programming, not a bug.

Master Ketsu · Oct 12, 2008, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Explain to me how pressing enter battle the same time as a friend to get into the same party is a bug. It's bad programming, not a bug.

If you read the rest of my post, you will see I already explained that. The definition of a bug in Game development terms is anything that goes against the original designers intention of how the feature should function. Anything that lets players make an arena that was designed to be random act like an arena that was designed to be used with pre-constructed teams would most definitely be considered a bug, regardless of how the exploit is achieved.

PS-Note: Exploits are seen as bugs and are placed in the same database. The only true difference between an exploit and a bug is that an exploit can be used by the player to gain an advantage.

Lawliet Kira · Oct 12, 2008, 05:18 AM // 05:18

me and a few of my friends well 3...went to jap dis and i cant believe it worked but all 4 of us got in perfect sync in RA...

Lest121 · Oct 12, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

A way to stop it don't match gamers up from the same district unless there's only 1 district, RA has at least 3 districts for most of the day, but i am guessing the system wasn't designed like that.

Taki · Oct 12, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Taki:

The short version of what follows is this. I argued that players in favor of a change to syncing should stop moralizing about it and start doing something to make it clear to ANet that the community actually favors their position.

You argue that I should go away and keep my opinions to myself.

Who has the problem with whose post?

You did argue that and I agree. People should take action instead of expending as much effort bitching as you did in making your post. But that's only as long as that something is important enough to take action about - which RA really is not. You also took the position that if they 'can't beat 'em, join 'em', which is sound advice for anyone involved in a sandbox fight. For anyone older than that, not so much.

Quote:

...can't deal with syncers, why don't you simply game the system the way other people are gaming it? Make some skilled friends and sync yourself if it bothers you that much.

Now, I "argued" that you should stop being a hypocrite, complaining about complaining, and stop voluntarily putting yourself in a position where there's complaining going on. Or take your own advice and grab the mods by the bells so they can't ignore you and force them to listen to your idea about banning any complaining or criticism on the forum.

Furthermore, complaining is a very important part in the whole process of action. Here's how it works:

1. Someone complains about X.
2. Others complains about X as well or tell Someone to stfu, "it's just you"
3. If enough people share the same complaint then they have something to work with
4. If it's worth doing something about, they begin taking action to rectify the problem
5. For ANET/GW, that action is posting on a fansite as directed by customer service where they say they will later review it.

You're telling people to stop doing that, attempting to maliciously intervene in the people's right to bitch. Do you know what you are, Martin?

You're a blocker. That's what you are.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for your logic

Quote:

Syncing does not create behavioral consequences that go beyond syncing.

You have nothing to substantiate this with but it doesn't matter. The behavioral consequences that syncing does create is negative enough.

Quote:

It doesn't threaten to undo the efforts of players by undermining the economy.

Where are you right now? There is no such thing as an economy in GW PvP to even be undermined in the first place. It's team build and player skill against team build and player skill. Not phat l00tz vs phater l00tz. You don't seem to be on Earth with me on this one but don't worry, I'll reel you back in right quick.

Quote:

It doesn't meaningfully change who runs around with high gladiator rank.

Again, where are you going with this? Titles, Glad rank in this case, mean absoutely nothing in GW besides time invested. But for the sake of argument lets say that Glad Rank was a critical component in the game. By intentionally bypassing the random team handicap that other players have syncers are forcing an unintended disadvantage on others, making it increasingly difficult for them to progress in the title track by defeating the weaker random teams while making it increasingly easier for the non-random team in the random arena. It's like playing Marco Polo with you're eyes open, against the blind.

Quote:

It doesn't limit the environment to the point where only an extremely limited number of character builds are viable.

Right, it doesn't. But this isn't the Norn tournament in PvE. The format and game isn't about character versus character. In RA it's supposed to be 4 random players and bars versus another 4 random players and bars. Syncing destroys that.

Quote:

In short, syncing creates no catastrophic externalities justifying its removal, which is the usual underlying reason for making a balance change in this game (whether ANet states this or not).

The only catastrophic externalities I remember is Prot Bond allegedly causing the servers to crash and Sig of Might killing Guild Lords and anything else after 10secs instead of just allied spirits. I'm pretty sure there's been more than just two balance updates to fix those two things though. So maybe ANET has more than just catastrophic externalities as their usual underlying reason behind balance updates. Maybe.

upier · Oct 12, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

I like syncing.
When I am doing it.

Otherwise I oppose.
But only if I lose.

HawkofStorms · Oct 12, 2008, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Really, syncing is NOT that big of a problem.

Honestly, I've played a few hundred hours (sad I know) of RA and have only come across sync teams like, a dozen times. Most of the time in RA, if you get steam rolled or run into a group of 4 guys who have builds that match up all too well, people just assume "oh they must be syncers" when really, random means sometimes 4 good players with 4 bars that mesh together will get teamed up every once in a while. It's only an obvious sync if they all have the same guild tag.

Really, it does NOT happen that often and is not as big of a problem as everybody is letting on.

Joe Fierce · Oct 12, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I like syncing.
When I am doing it.

Otherwise I oppose.
But only if I lose.

and that's why everyone here bitching about it is bitching about it.

i wouldn't call it cheating because it's simply trying to use your knowledge of the game mechanics to try and get better odds at what you wish.

but saying that knowledge of game mechanics is an exploit is like telling me that a 55 monk is an exploit, because it take a mechanic meant for keeping someone alive against a spike with prot spirit and makes a person with low health an regen indefinitely alive. as Avarre said, life sucks, then you RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing die, get over it.

DarkNecrid · Oct 12, 2008, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No.

Joe Fierce · Oct 12, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Long answer: No.

don't you mean:

NNOooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooOOOOOOOOOOO

?

Ranger Jaap · Oct 12, 2008, 10:48 AM // 10:48

I sometimes sync with a friend i think it isnt that bad. But with a whole team is a different story.

ousbique · Oct 12, 2008, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

I'm wondering if this is against the rules?

Yeah totally.

Random arena is... random : breaking the flaws of the system is breaking the rules : or cheating if you prefer.
Best answer to this imo is to lock the access to other districts in Random Arena, other than your game client's district & international district.
Syncjoining became important when they opened all the districts, especially chinese, korean, polish and recently japanese.

Numa Pompilius · Oct 12, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

There's no such thing as 'random', to be honest.

And as has been pointed out that is a bullshit semantic argument: computer pseudorandom is indistinguishable from true random for the user.

Quote:

Even so, syncing is still a 'random' process, although it involves loading the dice to a degree.

It's random much like using marked cards in poker is random.

Quote:

Most of the people that I know who sync RA just want to mess around with one or more of their friends without the serious organization of TA.

They want easy wins instead of hard losses, because it's more fun to win than lose.
EDIT: But let's run with that. Should 2-3 man teams, padded at match start with random players, be allowed in RA? I can see arguments both for (like that it'd bring the synching out in the open and make it a sanctioned form of play, and that it'd lessen the risk for three monk teams) and against (it'd increase the organization required to win in RA, making it almost as unfriendly to casual play as TA).

Avarre · Oct 12, 2008, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

And as has been pointed out that is a bullshit semantic argument

Wait, arguing over semantic bullshit isn't the point of this entire thread?

Huh, you got me there, I guess.

Shasgaliel · Oct 12, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Actions not-covered by law are not necessary legal. Actions not mentioned in the EULA are not necessarily unpunishable either. I have not seen so many justifications of cheating in whole my life like I have seen in this thread.

From EULA
a) NC Interactive reserves the right to suspend or terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or willfully infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game(s) as described in the Rules of Conduct.

Of course making teams in random arenas fits perfectly with the spirit of the game....

And in the Rules of Conduct:

You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars. Bugs should be promptly reported via "Ask a Question" at http://support.guildwars.com.

Now it is just enough as Pumpkin Pie wrote to convince Anet that possibility of synching in RA is a bug....

DreamWind · Oct 12, 2008, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

It's random much like using marked cards in poker is random.

The difference here is that there is no method of prevention in place for syncing and there is no penalty for syncing. If somebody said marked cards were legal and I wouldn't have any penalty for doing it, I would be stupid not to.